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[Courtesy of the CNN International, the following are excerpts
from the transcript of the rare and exclusive interview of China’s
Premier Wen Jiabao on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS.” Premier Wen
talked about the worldwide economic crisis, China’s diplomatic
relations and the development of democracy in China. The Chinese
premier’s appearance on “Fareed Zakaria GPS” was aired on
Monday September 29 in Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Singapore,
Taiwan, Bangkok, Jakarta, Sydney and Tokyo.]
On the US Economic Crisis:
Host Fareed Zakaria: Do you think you can
continue to grow, if the United States goes into a major recession?
Premier Wen Jiabao: A possible US economic
recession will certainly have an impact on the Chinese economy,
because we know that 10 years ago the China-US trade volume stood at
only US$102.6 billion, while today, the figure soared to US$302
billion—actually representing an increase of 1.5-fold. A shrinking
of US demand will certainly have an impact on China’s export.
And US finance is closely connected with the
Chinese finance. If anything goes wrong in the US financial sector,
we are anxious about the safety and security of Chinese capital.
That’s why at the very beginning, I have made it clear that
financial problems in this country not only concerns the interest of
the United States, but also that of China and the world at large.
Host Fareed Zakaria: There is another sense in
which we are interdependent. China is the largest holder of US
Treasury bills. By some accounts, you hold almost $1 trillion of it.
It makes Americans—some Americans—uneasy. Can you reassure them
that China would never use this status as a weapon in some form?
Premier Wen Jiabao: As I said, we believe that
the US real economy is still solidly based, particularly in the
high-tech industries and the basic industries. Now, something has
gone wrong in the virtual economy. But if this problem is properly
addressed, then it is still possible to stabilize the economy in
this country. The Chinese government hopes very much that the US
side will be able to stabilize its economy and finance as quickly as
possible. And we also hope to see sustained development in the
United States, as that will benefit China.
Of course, we are concerned about the safety and
security of Chinese money here. But we believe that the United
States is a credible country, and particularly at such difficult
times, China has reached out to the United States. And actually, we
believe such a helping hand will help stabilize the entire global
economy and finance and to prevent major chaos from occurring in the
global economic and financial system. I believe now, cooperation is
everything.
On Tibet when asked what it would take to
meet with the Dalai Lama
Host Fareed Zakaria: May I ask you about another
set of possible talks? The Dalai Lama has said, now, it appears that
he would accept China’s rule in Tibet. He accepts the socialist
system in Tibet. And what he asks for is cultural autonomy and a
certain degree of political autonomy.
The talks apparently are stuck at a lower level
between the Tibetans and the Chinese government. Why don’t you,
given your power and your negotiating skills, take the issue
yourself and you or President Hu Jintao were to negotiate directly
with the Dalai Lama and solve this issue once and for all, for the
benefit of the Chinese people and, of course, the Tibetan people who
are also in China?
Premier Wen Jiabao: In many places all over the
world, the Dalai Lama keeps preaching about the idea of the
so-called autonomy in the greater Tibetan region. And actually, the
so-called autonomy that he pursues is actually to use religion to
intervene in politics. And they want to separate the so-called
“greater Tibetan region” from the motherland.
And many people in the United States have no
idea how big is the so-called “greater Tibetan region.” The
so-called “greater Tibetan region,” preached by the Dalai Lama,
actually covers Tibet, Sichuan, Yunnan, Qinghai and Gansu—altogether,
five provinces. And the area covered by this so-called “greater
Tibetan region” accounts for a quarter of China’s territory.
For decades, our policy towards the Dalai Lama
remains unchanged. That is, as long as the Dalai Lama is willing to
recognize that Tibet is an inalienable part of China’s territory
and as long as the Dalai Lama gives up his separatist activities, we
are willing to have contact and talks with him or his
representatives. Now, sincerity holds the key to producing results
out of the talks.
Host Fareed Zakaria: What action would you like
to see from the Dalai Lama that would show sincerity?
Premier Wen Jiabao: Actually, I already made it
clear that, when we observe any individual, the Dalai Lama included,
we should not only watch what—we should not only observe what he
says, but also watch what he does. His sincerity can be demonstrated
in giving up separatist activities. But then, everything depends on
the development of the situation.
On China’s positions toward Darfur, Iran
and Myanmar
Host Fareed Zakaria: Many people see China as a
superpower already. And they wonder, why is it not being more active
in political resolution of issues such as the issue of Darfur, or
the issue of Iran and its nuclear ambitions. There’s a hope that
China will play a role as a responsible stakeholder—to use Robert
Zoellick’s phrase when he was deputy secretary of state—and that
China will be more active in managing the political problems in the
world, and that so far, it has not been active. How would you react
to that?
Premier Wen Jiabao: To answer this question, I
need to correct some of the elements in your question. First, China
is not a superpower. Although China has a population of 1.3 billion,
and although in recent years China has registered fairly fast
economic and social development since reform and opening up, China
still has this problem of unbalanced development between different
regions and between China’s urban and rural areas. China remains a
developing country.
We still have 800 million farmers in rural
areas, and we still dozens of million people living in poverty. To
address our own problems, we need to do a great deal. China is not a
superpower. That’s why we need to focus on our own development and
on our efforts to improve people’s lives.
Host Fareed Zakaria: But surely, the Chinese
government could pressure the Sudanese government, or the Iranian
government, or the government in Burma to ease—to be less
repressive. You have relations with all three of them.
Premier Wen Jiabao: That brings me to your
second question. Actually, in the international community, China is
a justice-upholding country. We never trade our principles. Take the
Darfur issue that you raised just now, for example. China has always
advocated that we need to adopt a dual-track approach to seek a
solution to the Darfur issue. China was among the first countries
that sent—sending peacekeepers to Darfur. China was also the first
country that gave assistance to Sudan. And we also keep our efforts
to engage the leaders in Sudan, to try to seek a peaceful solution
to the issue as quickly as possible.
On the development of democracy in China
Host Fareed Zakaria: There is a very famous
photograph of you at Tiananmen Square in 1989. What lesson did you
take from your experiences in dealing with that problem in 1989?
Premier Wen Jiabao: I believe that, while moving
ahead with the economic reforms, we also need to advance political
reforms. As our development is comprehensive in nature, our reform
should also be comprehensive. I think the core of your question is
about the development of democracy in China. I believe, when it
comes to the development of democracy in China, we talk about
progress to be made in three areas.
Number one, we need to gradually improve the
democratic election system, so that state power will truly belong to
the people, and state power will be used to serve the people.
Number two, we need to improve the legal system,
run the country according to law and establish the country under the
rule of law. And we need to build an independent and just judicial
system.
Number three, government should be subject to
oversight by the people and if (ph) you ask us, call on us to
increase transparency in government affairs. And particularly, it is
also necessary for government to accept oversight by the news media
and other parties.
-- Published with permission of CNN International
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